Image from google streetview
There is a video traversing the many fire sites that an American took of a fire among row houses in France. I am sure that many Urban American Firefighters will join my sentiment in thinking that this looks very odd at face value. It seems like an eternity in getting water on the fire. Luckily it seemed as though the fire was not spreading fast. However, I know when to shut up and usually that is when I am speaking about something I know nothing about. French Firefighting is one of those things.
I have to pat myself on the back for the following…Many are wondering where this is exactly and I am surprised that Dave Statter, the King of Google Streetview didn’t look for it or didn’t find it. However, I did. I saw Puy-de-Dome on the back of one of the firefighters and then noticed the store Yawatah. From that I found the location and you can view the streetview here. Take a look around if you want. The rowhouse on fire can be seen past the pink store on the left down the alley. I gave up soon after that in trying to find the actual fire station. The fire was in Puy-de-dome and/or Clermont-Ferrand France.
The video can be seen with subsequent comments on Firefighter Nation, FireGeezer, STATter 911, and this German or Dutch? Blog that I hope to have more information on soon.
The video is below:
It is worth watching in its entirety. I think it would be interesting to see some more of France’s Bravest in action.
Also on the FireCritic …
- Here’s One For the Ladies – November 24, 2009
- Video – Pier Fire in Atlantic City – November 24, 2009
- Another FF Sliding Chute…In California – August 19, 2009
- Perfect Example of Poor PPV Placement – September 2, 2009
I challenge anyone who thinks it took too long to get water on this fire to make a primary survey of this fifth floor, over 100 year old building, likely remodeled multiple times and ask them if their “pre-connects” will reach the fifth floor. What I saw on this video, with the edits, was a team moving slowly on a small fire.
Before passing judgment on this team, get your engine 200 feet down the alley and let’s see how long it takes you to get water on this fire.
Then post the video and prove them slow. Until then, this is a view into how things work where things are different.
HM,
I have to admit that when I saw it the first time I thought that things were going slow. Then as I watched it a couple of times and started writing about it I realized that while it seemed like it took a while it certainly was methodical and in the end I realized that they were certainly working smarter and not harder.
The issue I have is that in my City there would have been a lot more work going on. For better or worse, there would have been some ladders thrown and more firefighters on scene.
In the end, I decided to think again about what I was writing and remove a lot of what I thought I saw and gave them the benefit of the doubt. I know that firefighting is very different from Country to Country much like it is in various parts of the U.S.
I do wonder what the scene would have been like if there was fire blowing out of one of the windows.
One other thing I noticed was I think I only saw one firefighter with breathing apparatus on.
I do hope that I can learn more about firefighting in other Countries. Maybe it won’t happen to the extent of your swap with medic999 for EMS but I do hope to learn!
FC,
I in no way was “poking” at your coverage of the video, I hope my comments were not viewed as such. I like that your coverage is without obvious biased as some others can be.
My comments were after the Angry Captain and I viewed the video on the big screen here at HMHQ and discussed how we would each fight this kind of fire. The first thing we both asked was “Where and what” was on fire?
Most American FFs are stuck a tthe beginning, not being able to do their patented walk of shame AKA 360.
As you said, on a second view this is a methodical team realizing a 200′ line will not make the stairwell to the fifth floor. I have read comments on other sites that criticize not bringing in a charged line, but had they done that they would be on the third floor landing wondering what to do next, hence the rope out the window.
Also, judging by the exterior plumbing this building is at least 100 years old and the layout is anyone’s guess.
Watching this reminds us all that there are different ways of doing things.
Keep up the coverage!
HM
HM, I didn’t take it that you were poking. Either way it wouldn’t matter though I have been in this business long enough to develop a thick skin and understand that my opinion isn’t the only one!
It’s good that you stopped looking for the firehouse because you probably wouldn’t have found it unless the bay door was open. When I visited France in 2000 I went searching for firehouses and the majority of them are two doors (one apparatus bay door and one man door). Most have little to no signage and are made to “blend in” with the neighborhood.
What most american firefighters do not understand is that the entire mindset of the French Fire Departments (in general) is to first perform a search of the fire apartment and then begin containing the fire Since most construction is concrete and stone, this often can prevent the fire from exiting into the common stairwells. the reason for the hose wagons is the fact that people park all over the place in France, and there is often absolutely no way to strech off of an engine. Also, there are no sprinklers, and often no smoke detectors in most buildings. So, in general, the French Firefighters get ALOT of work.
For the most part, I would also say that French Professional Firefighters are FAR FAR better trained and in FAR FAR better shape than the majority of American Firefighters. They have extremely stringent physical exams that are performed (in the case of the Paris Brigade) once a month. And they are paid on a contract basis, so if you are not performing to their high standard, you will be released from your contract.
1) It’s fair to say that part of the head scratching and questioning from the U.S. is simply put, if a city of 150,000 in the U.S. sent 2 Engines and 8 Firefighters to a fire like this we’d be screaming bloody murder over staffing.
In Worcester, MA a similiar size city I’ve worked in quite a bit over the years and am pretty familiar with this fire would’ve started off with 4 Engines, 2 Ladders, and a District Chief & Aide with total staffing around 22. Even with that, in their most common residential building — three story apartment buildings in close proximity to each other known as “three deckers” it’s tough to hold an assignment to a first alarm due to the rate of fire spread. It’s a different world from heavy masonry with relatively few windows and no significant radiant exposures.
Activities the French firefighters were taking in serial fashion would’ve been done in parallel, partly from the need due to construction, partly due to staffing that’s been developed to deal with our fire loads and construction.
Even when we don’t have the staffing to carry them out effectively in parallel, most of us still try to do so (and sometimes have to be strongly reminded that things like getting the first hoseline in place is more important then stretching a second line).
We don’t know for certain it really was 20 minutes; maybe it was 12 or 15 — a timeframe more realistic in my mind. Certainly with U.S. staffing levels I would’ve expected searches going on in parallel even if they were confused which building was the origin, which would’ve sped things up — with at least one crew assigned to the “exposure” which turned out to the seat. I’d bet I’m right on reading the body language that they had at least one FNG their who was still a bit overwhelmed and learning the trade. For the differences between the continents, I’d still be REAL surprised if that is their primary forcible entry technique — just another indication they were a bit “off their game” on this fire due to the combination of several factors. Anyone whose been around for while has seen those fires when a plan just doesn’t come together and it devolves in “le systeme D” — which is French for “muddle on through it…”