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	<title>Comments on: EMS as a Profession?</title>
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		<title>By: ryan6236</title>
		<link>http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-985</link>
		<dc:creator>ryan6236</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 06:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firecritic.com/?p=1425#comment-985</guid>
		<description>We aren&#039;t a business though bud, at least not where I work. We&#039;re a municipal service, funded by taxpayers... and everytime I run a homeless guy to the hospital because its cold outside or carry a seeker to the ER because their hydrocodone or xanax ran out, I&#039;m not doing anyone a favor, least of all the public. &lt;br&gt;We aren&#039;t generating revenue, we aren&#039;t helping these people, we&#039;re being abused by them. And everytime I miss a Chest pain/breathing difficulty, Code Blue, Shooting, Stabbing or whatever because I&#039;m driving back spasms lady to the hospital for the second time in ONE DAY it really drives home the fact that something is broken. &lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t know the fix.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We aren&#39;t a business though bud, at least not where I work. We&#39;re a municipal service, funded by taxpayers&#8230; and everytime I run a homeless guy to the hospital because its cold outside or carry a seeker to the ER because their hydrocodone or xanax ran out, I&#39;m not doing anyone a favor, least of all the public. <br />We aren&#39;t generating revenue, we aren&#39;t helping these people, we&#39;re being abused by them. And everytime I miss a Chest pain/breathing difficulty, Code Blue, Shooting, Stabbing or whatever because I&#39;m driving back spasms lady to the hospital for the second time in ONE DAY it really drives home the fact that something is broken. <br />I don&#39;t know the fix.</p>
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		<title>By: CBEMT</title>
		<link>http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-584</link>
		<dc:creator>CBEMT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 05:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firecritic.com/?p=1425#comment-584</guid>
		<description>Sorry FC.  Should it become necessary, I want my family taken care of by someone who eats, breaths, and sleeps pre-hospital medical care.  Not a firefighter who has &quot;come to terms&quot; with EMS being a necessary evil of the fire service whose only useful purpose is to justify BRTs.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Nothing personal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry FC.  Should it become necessary, I want my family taken care of by someone who eats, breaths, and sleeps pre-hospital medical care.  Not a firefighter who has &#8220;come to terms&#8221; with EMS being a necessary evil of the fire service whose only useful purpose is to justify BRTs.</p>
<p>Nothing personal.</p>
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		<title>By: CBEMT</title>
		<link>http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-570</link>
		<dc:creator>CBEMT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 04:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firecritic.com/?p=1425#comment-570</guid>
		<description>Sorry FC.  Should it become necessary, I want my family taken care of by someone who eats, breaths, and sleeps pre-hospital medical care.  Not a firefighter who has &quot;come to terms&quot; with EMS being a necessary evil of the fire service whose only useful purpose is to justify BRTs.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Nothing personal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry FC.  Should it become necessary, I want my family taken care of by someone who eats, breaths, and sleeps pre-hospital medical care.  Not a firefighter who has &#8220;come to terms&#8221; with EMS being a necessary evil of the fire service whose only useful purpose is to justify BRTs.</p>
<p>Nothing personal.</p>
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		<title>By: Medic999</title>
		<link>http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-552</link>
		<dc:creator>Medic999</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firecritic.com/?p=1425#comment-552</guid>
		<description>FC,&lt;br&gt;Just to add some info about the end of your post:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;One other thing is prioritized dispatch and then some. The Richmond Ambulance Authority’s dispatchers are all Paramedics (who are/were field paramedics and know the job). This cuts down on the amount of ambulances running lights and sirens to calls. It doesn’t cut down on BS calls though, because the RAA bills for transports and also takes care of the majority of non-emergent transports in the Richmond area. The BS calls might be culled to transport agencies if you don’t do non-emergent transports&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I have mentioned on my blog in the past about the system for disptach we use called &#039;NHS Pathways&#039;. This is a brand new &#039;first of its kind&#039; traige system for Ambulance Services, that provides the EMSO (Emergency Medical Services Operators) with the option to inform the patient that they do not need an ambulance, could be seen by a more appropriate provider of a service, make there own way to hospital or a walk in centre or just refer them on to one of our clincal supervisors for phone advice.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It took some getting used to and initially the safeguards were set very high, and it was more likely that a patient got an ambulance than not for something minor, however, with training and experience it seems to be working really well.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;More information can be found here:&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://999medic.com/2009/03/06/nhs-pathways/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://999medic.com/2009/03/06/nhs-pathways/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Im excited to see where EMS 2.0 can go. As I have mentioned in my last post, I really think that it is a world wide concept, not just for the U.S. We have alot to learn from each other, and forums like this can only work to enhance international co-operation to help push our profession to where it needs and deserves to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FC,<br />Just to add some info about the end of your post:</p>
<p>&#8220;One other thing is prioritized dispatch and then some. The Richmond Ambulance Authority’s dispatchers are all Paramedics (who are/were field paramedics and know the job). This cuts down on the amount of ambulances running lights and sirens to calls. It doesn’t cut down on BS calls though, because the RAA bills for transports and also takes care of the majority of non-emergent transports in the Richmond area. The BS calls might be culled to transport agencies if you don’t do non-emergent transports&#8221;</p>
<p>I have mentioned on my blog in the past about the system for disptach we use called &#39;NHS Pathways&#39;. This is a brand new &#39;first of its kind&#39; traige system for Ambulance Services, that provides the EMSO (Emergency Medical Services Operators) with the option to inform the patient that they do not need an ambulance, could be seen by a more appropriate provider of a service, make there own way to hospital or a walk in centre or just refer them on to one of our clincal supervisors for phone advice.</p>
<p>It took some getting used to and initially the safeguards were set very high, and it was more likely that a patient got an ambulance than not for something minor, however, with training and experience it seems to be working really well.</p>
<p>More information can be found here:<br /><a href="http://999medic.com/2009/03/06/nhs-pathways/" rel="nofollow">http://999medic.com/2009/03/06/nhs-pathways/</a></p>
<p>Im excited to see where EMS 2.0 can go. As I have mentioned in my last post, I really think that it is a world wide concept, not just for the U.S. We have alot to learn from each other, and forums like this can only work to enhance international co-operation to help push our profession to where it needs and deserves to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention EMS as a Profession? – The Fire Critic -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-540</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention EMS as a Profession? – The Fire Critic -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firecritic.com/?p=1425#comment-540</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by FireCritic and FireCritic, Chris Kaiser. Chris Kaiser said: RT @tweetmeme EMS as a Profession? – The Fire Critic http://retwt.me/1d93b [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by FireCritic and FireCritic, Chris Kaiser. Chris Kaiser said: RT @tweetmeme EMS as a Profession? – The Fire Critic <a href="http://retwt.me/1d93b" rel="nofollow">http://retwt.me/1d93b</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: EMS 2.0 &#8211; Momentum Building &#8211; Life Under the Lights</title>
		<link>http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-538</link>
		<dc:creator>EMS 2.0 &#8211; Momentum Building &#8211; Life Under the Lights</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 03:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firecritic.com/?p=1425#comment-538</guid>
		<description>[...] http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/?success [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/?success" rel="nofollow">http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/?success</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: EMS as a Profession. &#124; The Happy Medic</title>
		<link>http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-535</link>
		<dc:creator>EMS as a Profession. &#124; The Happy Medic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firecritic.com/?p=1425#comment-535</guid>
		<description>[...] blogger Fire Critic has made comments in the past about the mission of the modern fire service.  Heck, that&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] blogger Fire Critic has made comments in the past about the mission of the modern fire service.  Heck, that&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Next Paramedic Shortage &#124; Firegeezer</title>
		<link>http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-534</link>
		<dc:creator>The Next Paramedic Shortage &#124; Firegeezer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:44:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firecritic.com/?p=1425#comment-534</guid>
		<description>[...] Oct 21:  Fire Critic stirs the pot and asks EMS As A Profession? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Oct 21:  Fire Critic stirs the pot and asks EMS As A Profession? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: the Happy Medic</title>
		<link>http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-532</link>
		<dc:creator>the Happy Medic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firecritic.com/?p=1425#comment-532</guid>
		<description>Thanks FC for the mention on the movement.  EMS 2.0 was origionally born on the floor of the Univeristy of new mexico graduation ceremony where 4 Paramedics stood arm to arm with the graduates from the Medical School with their Bachelor&#039;s in EMS.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;EMS 2.0, as I first envisioned it, was the ability of the on scene practitioner to access other elements of the system other than the ER.&lt;br&gt;I respectfully disagree with CK about the &quot;No BS calls&quot; and using his hot dog analogy, most of my customers are coming to the hot dog stand looking to buy frozen dinners.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;EMS will always be activated for reasons other than an emergency, but we need to give those who encounter these folks more options.  Along with tthat will be completely new training to identify the situations when people don&#039;t need an ambulance.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;No matter your views about what is wrong, we all need to bring solutions, like CK and others in the movement are doing.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I too will expand when I have more time.  I snuck onto the classroom computer and everyone is reading along.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks FC for the mention on the movement.  EMS 2.0 was origionally born on the floor of the Univeristy of new mexico graduation ceremony where 4 Paramedics stood arm to arm with the graduates from the Medical School with their Bachelor&#39;s in EMS.</p>
<p>EMS 2.0, as I first envisioned it, was the ability of the on scene practitioner to access other elements of the system other than the ER.<br />I respectfully disagree with CK about the &#8220;No BS calls&#8221; and using his hot dog analogy, most of my customers are coming to the hot dog stand looking to buy frozen dinners.</p>
<p>EMS will always be activated for reasons other than an emergency, but we need to give those who encounter these folks more options.  Along with tthat will be completely new training to identify the situations when people don&#39;t need an ambulance.</p>
<p>No matter your views about what is wrong, we all need to bring solutions, like CK and others in the movement are doing.</p>
<p>I too will expand when I have more time.  I snuck onto the classroom computer and everyone is reading along.</p>
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		<title>By: Happy Wednesday! &#8211; Life Under the Lights</title>
		<link>http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-531</link>
		<dc:creator>Happy Wednesday! &#8211; Life Under the Lights</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firecritic.com/?p=1425#comment-531</guid>
		<description>[...] rambling. I also plan on putting up three posts today. One EMS 2.0 post in response to Medic999 and FireCritic, one post describing the hell week that I&#8217;m putting my feet through, and another post about [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] rambling. I also plan on putting up three posts today. One EMS 2.0 post in response to Medic999 and FireCritic, one post describing the hell week that I&#8217;m putting my feet through, and another post about [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ckemtp</title>
		<link>http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-530</link>
		<dc:creator>Ckemtp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firecritic.com/?p=1425#comment-530</guid>
		<description>First off, thank you FC for the mention. EMS 2.0 was originally coined by the Happy Medic as the reinvention of EMS. I look at it as the maturing of our profession out of the adolescent trade phase and into a grown-up profession. It&#039;s going to be a tough road to travel, and if the issues we were facing were easy someone would have thought up solutions by now.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There&#039;s a lot of people I respect that are already here, FC, TOTW, and RM, you&#039;ve all got excellent opinions and are going to be leaders in the movement. However, I have to respectfully disagree with you all on a point. Smitty touched on this in the above comment while I was writing this (My computer crashed... Thanks Windows!).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t believe in BS calls. There, I said it. Sure, in the decade or so that I&#039;ve been doing this I&#039;ve ran more than my share of hangnails and even a &quot;lost condom&quot; or two. However that is a small price to pay for trying to avoid what it is that really bothers me... and that is when people having true medical emergencies don&#039;t call us when they could really benefit from our care.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Look for my expanded ideas on this in a post that I&#039;ll get up later today. However, the salient point is this: EMS cannot be angry when our customers (patients) choose to use our service in a way that we don&#039;t want to be used. It is our responsibility to adapt to how the public chooses to use our services. What other business model (and yes, healthcare reform must look at the fact that all healthcare is indeed some form of a business) would launch sweeping and angry diatribes on the fact that more customers are coming than they want to come? Any other business model would adapt, overcome, and improvise to meet the challenges and onslaught of new business. We can&#039;t... yet. because we&#039;re not nimble and we&#039;re bound by lots of regulation and pressures from other interests.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I wouldn&#039;t chase customers away from my hamburger stand simply because they enjoyed my hotdogs. I&#039;d change it to a Hotdog AND hamburger stand. Today&#039;s EMS would continue to try and sell hamburgers and would get ticked off everytime they sold a hotdog.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Onward and upward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, thank you FC for the mention. EMS 2.0 was originally coined by the Happy Medic as the reinvention of EMS. I look at it as the maturing of our profession out of the adolescent trade phase and into a grown-up profession. It&#39;s going to be a tough road to travel, and if the issues we were facing were easy someone would have thought up solutions by now.</p>
<p>There&#39;s a lot of people I respect that are already here, FC, TOTW, and RM, you&#39;ve all got excellent opinions and are going to be leaders in the movement. However, I have to respectfully disagree with you all on a point. Smitty touched on this in the above comment while I was writing this (My computer crashed&#8230; Thanks Windows!).</p>
<p>I don&#39;t believe in BS calls. There, I said it. Sure, in the decade or so that I&#39;ve been doing this I&#39;ve ran more than my share of hangnails and even a &#8220;lost condom&#8221; or two. However that is a small price to pay for trying to avoid what it is that really bothers me&#8230; and that is when people having true medical emergencies don&#39;t call us when they could really benefit from our care.</p>
<p>Look for my expanded ideas on this in a post that I&#39;ll get up later today. However, the salient point is this: EMS cannot be angry when our customers (patients) choose to use our service in a way that we don&#39;t want to be used. It is our responsibility to adapt to how the public chooses to use our services. What other business model (and yes, healthcare reform must look at the fact that all healthcare is indeed some form of a business) would launch sweeping and angry diatribes on the fact that more customers are coming than they want to come? Any other business model would adapt, overcome, and improvise to meet the challenges and onslaught of new business. We can&#39;t&#8230; yet. because we&#39;re not nimble and we&#39;re bound by lots of regulation and pressures from other interests.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#39;t chase customers away from my hamburger stand simply because they enjoyed my hotdogs. I&#39;d change it to a Hotdog AND hamburger stand. Today&#39;s EMS would continue to try and sell hamburgers and would get ticked off everytime they sold a hotdog.</p>
<p>Onward and upward.</p>
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		<title>By: SMITTY</title>
		<link>http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-529</link>
		<dc:creator>SMITTY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firecritic.com/?p=1425#comment-529</guid>
		<description>My department runs on a ton of BLS calls where the person easily could have hopped into the car and drive to the hospital, maybe even just the doctor and by perfectly fine. Most are thankful, some rude and not too cooperative.  Then we have the people who are knocking on death’s door, but were too embarrassed to call 911. The whole time treating them they are apologizing and felling bad they called us. Anyone else find this to be the case?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;When I got into the fire service I was very unsure of how I would like the EMS side.  I like the fire side better, but I get more action on the EMS side.  I think the increased schooling and training for EMS can be a great thing.  However, EMS needs to be paid like a career and respected like one.  Otherwise, EMS will continue to be a stepping stone to respectable careers like a RN or a PA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My department runs on a ton of BLS calls where the person easily could have hopped into the car and drive to the hospital, maybe even just the doctor and by perfectly fine. Most are thankful, some rude and not too cooperative.  Then we have the people who are knocking on death’s door, but were too embarrassed to call 911. The whole time treating them they are apologizing and felling bad they called us. Anyone else find this to be the case?</p>
<p>When I got into the fire service I was very unsure of how I would like the EMS side.  I like the fire side better, but I get more action on the EMS side.  I think the increased schooling and training for EMS can be a great thing.  However, EMS needs to be paid like a career and respected like one.  Otherwise, EMS will continue to be a stepping stone to respectable careers like a RN or a PA.</p>
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		<title>By: totwtytr</title>
		<link>http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-528</link>
		<dc:creator>totwtytr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firecritic.com/?p=1425#comment-528</guid>
		<description>We have BS calls because we spent the past 35 or so years telling the public &quot;If in doubt, call 9-1-1 for EMS.&quot; We&#039;ve succeeded beyond our wildest expectations and now people call us for everything and nothing. The police call us when they have a situation they don&#039;t want to deal with. The public calls us because we have vehicles that can bring them to the hospital. The fire calls us (in many systems) because they want the run volume but not the work or responsibility of actually doing EMS. Clinics call us when they have someone that is more sick than they are set up to handle. Schools call us when they have a problem child they don&#039;t want to deal with. Need I go on?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have BS calls because we spent the past 35 or so years telling the public &#8220;If in doubt, call 9-1-1 for EMS.&#8221; We&#39;ve succeeded beyond our wildest expectations and now people call us for everything and nothing. The police call us when they have a situation they don&#39;t want to deal with. The public calls us because we have vehicles that can bring them to the hospital. The fire calls us (in many systems) because they want the run volume but not the work or responsibility of actually doing EMS. Clinics call us when they have someone that is more sick than they are set up to handle. Schools call us when they have a problem child they don&#39;t want to deal with. Need I go on?</p>
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		<title>By: roguemedic</title>
		<link>http://firecritic.com/2009/10/ems-as-a-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-526</link>
		<dc:creator>roguemedic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firecritic.com/?p=1425#comment-526</guid>
		<description>I think that there are some agencies doing the EMS prevention you describe. The problem is that too many people are afraid of the lawyers. &lt;i&gt;What if somebody doesn&#039;t call 911 and dies?&lt;/i&gt; The hospitals have the same problem, since all of the non-emergent patients are going to the hospital. This is a big problem. It is also a problem for the much higher paid nurses, PAs, and doctors. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There are some systems that do tiered response. Paramedics are only sent to some of the calls. They have much fewer medics, but they seem to be much better skilled than the medics in systems that send a medic on every call.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We have too many medics. Not enough of the medics are skilled enough. To me, this seems like a two birds/one stone problem. Unfortunately the clueless politicians are not likely to see things the same way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that there are some agencies doing the EMS prevention you describe. The problem is that too many people are afraid of the lawyers. <i>What if somebody doesn&#39;t call 911 and dies?</i> The hospitals have the same problem, since all of the non-emergent patients are going to the hospital. This is a big problem. It is also a problem for the much higher paid nurses, PAs, and doctors. </p>
<p>There are some systems that do tiered response. Paramedics are only sent to some of the calls. They have much fewer medics, but they seem to be much better skilled than the medics in systems that send a medic on every call.</p>
<p>We have too many medics. Not enough of the medics are skilled enough. To me, this seems like a two birds/one stone problem. Unfortunately the clueless politicians are not likely to see things the same way.</p>
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