The other day, Cindy Devone-Pacheco wrote a blog post on Firefighter Nation titled “Another Noose”.
The post has sparked a lot of conversation both here and here. Mick Mayers gave his side here.
The basis of Captain Busy’s argument is that he doesn’t agree with race being used to stir the pot…
What is not right is the use of race issues, religion or sexual preference to stir the pot, make people angry and point fingers at folks who quite frankly (if they are anything like me) were surprised to read such an obvious attempt to get folks to respond.
Kali goddess of destruction started another thread that pretty much says the same thing:
The below article, written by by an editor at FireRescue, which owns FFN, paints the entire Fire Service as racist for the sole purpose of generating “buzz” or traffic to this website.
If you continue reading the discussion moves on to Cindy and her job security, the webchief and his moderation ability, Tim and his apology for Cindy, and about a ton of other analogies for those of us that didn’t think the KKK reference was bad enough.
Here are some issues though (yes I am playing both sides of the field):
1. User terms of service #14 for FFN: in a manner that is hateful or discriminatory based on race, color, sex, religion, nationality, ethnic or national origin, marital status, disability, sexual orientation or age or is otherwise objectionable, as reasonably determined by Ning;
Were there any complaints of the “white guy” reference being hateful or discriminatory towards white people or “guys”? If this fits the criteria and any other comments/blogs have been deleted because of the same infringement then the webchief needs to draw a more permanent line in the sand of what can and cannot be said.
2. What would have happened if they had just removed the entire blog post?
You guys would be sitting in a padded room clutching a teddy bear and sucking your thumbs! You guys freak out when stuff gets deleted. Oh but wait…you didn’t agree with it being up there so it is a catch 22.
3. Should she have apologized?
I think so. It was a poor choice of words. Tim can’t be but so pissed because I am sure it did great things for traffic! Some people have vowed to not read the magazine anymore….cry me a river.
I think that Captain and Kali missed the boat though. Of course it was about engaging readers. Sure the statement might have been strong, but if it weren’t to entice the readers it wouldn’t have been written at all. After all, we are all just a bunch of narcissists writing blogs, writing in forums, and responding to others.
Some of the responding users did hit the nail on the head with the real issue (comparing the fire service to the KKK).
Writers want people to read our stuff. Whether you are writing a book, a blog, an article, or a comment we want it to be read. With that being said we have to be responsible for what we write and have the balls to stand up for it. Cindy wrote it and published it…it is history now.
Here is my take. I don’t appreciate Cindy insinuating that I am part of a brotherhood that is an extension of the KKK. Me being a “white guy” as she called it and a firefighter would lead me to believe that she is indeed talking about me.
But does it really piss me off? NO. A comment like this won’t make me quit a subscription, stop using FFN, or anything else. If anything, it entices me to read more from Cindy to see what she is all about….”Expert Marketing” unless of course she gets the can in which it would become “Editorial Suicide”!
I too read the FFN posts and found myself intrigued by this topic. It reminded me of how eager some are to be offended.
I let the thought wander aimlessly into the dusty synapses of my brain, as they are wanton to do.
It was later in the week that I noticed a news item about another racial taunt that insidiously made it to the bottom of an email sent from one firefighter to another, then forwarded (with or without noticing the racial remark) to another hundred firefighters, and so on and so on.
That was the genesis of one of my most recent posts:
http://firedaily.com/2009/12/we-are-so-eager-to…
I cross-posted onto the Firefighter Nation forums and drew quite a response. From this lesson I learned about how easy it is to hate, how easy it is to misinterpret, and how easy it is to jump to the wrong conclusions. If you've got a few minutes, check them out.
It takes each of us to have the cojones to stand up and say “time out” to any “brother” who would bring down the fire service with these bigoted, close-minded, hateful, immature, and prejudiced actions.
If they want to publicly espouse their “beliefs”, then do it- after they've left the fire service we so dearly love and admire.
Want to be offended? Choose your fight wisely then go into battle.
(stepping back down off my soapbox)
So there. ;>
I too read the FFN posts and found myself intrigued by this topic. It reminded me of how eager some are to be offended.
I let the thought wander aimlessly into the dusty synapses of my brain, as they are wanton to do.
It was later in the week that I noticed a news item about another racial taunt that insidiously made it to the bottom of an email sent from one firefighter to another, then forwarded (with or without noticing the racial remark) to another hundred firefighters, and so on and so on.
That was the genesis of one of my most recent posts:
http://firedaily.com/2009/12/we-are-so-eager-to…
I cross-posted onto the Firefighter Nation forums and drew quite a response. From this lesson I learned about how easy it is to hate, how easy it is to misinterpret, and how easy it is to jump to the wrong conclusions. If you've got a few minutes, check them out.
It takes each of us to have the cojones to stand up and say “time out” to any “brother” who would bring down the fire service with these bigoted, close-minded, hateful, immature, and prejudiced actions.
If they want to publicly espouse their “beliefs”, then do it- after they've left the fire service we so dearly love and admire.
Want to be offended? Choose your fight wisely then go into battle.
(stepping back down off my soapbox)
So there. ;>
Cindy is very regretful for what her post has done. She has apologized and Tim has also commented on the matter. Her post, while not written in the best style, did ask a powerful question. As I have shared with others, despite the outcry of condemnation (wanting Cindy terminated) and solidarity ('brotherhood' among anonymous internet personalities) before January 2010 is over the fire service will again hear of some department having an issue with racism, sexual harassment or hazing. The news story of the New Mexico chief and firefighters with felony convictions hardly received the outcry that the noose blog did. In fact, the most heated or trafficked forums are the ones currently involving the unpermitted display of Christian religious signs during Christmas. As of this morning there is an update to the FDNY EMS story about the EMTs on break allegedly refusing service to a pregnant woman in distress. Where is the outcry in that? Probably slight because it's EMS, and we don't know the race and ethnicity of the EMTs.Yesterday FFN had the news about FDNY's new commissioner. In the later selection process, one of the candidates was a female, not Caucasian, and with a Jewish sounding last name. Local news had many quotes, from unidentified members, about how she wasn't “one of them”, and that the only way she would likely get the spot would be because of her race and sex. Is that racism, sexism? Yes, but because none of the NYC reporters went with “FDNY is extension of Men Only Club”, there's very little notice; except for the Daily Intel, who ran this obvious headline, http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2009/12/new_fire_c…
I wonder what retired Battalion Chief Rochelle Jones would say about it.
Despite the poor wording of Cindy's question, it still remains unanswered, in theoretical context. I say that not because the fire service is an extension of racial hatred, but because firefighters are human. Firefighters are member of a greater civil community and some communities have a very deep past when it comes to race. This strange notion that public safety officials are devoid of any sinful behavior is constantly rebuked by news of racist, sexist and felonious acts committed by men and women in blue, because they are human.
There is also a narrow-mindedness in many forums, regardless of the site, and it is apparent through the number of comments and how the comments are written. There is a participatory culture that exists in fire service websites, which is good for traffic but lacks the substance of having quality discussion and debate. Readers comment without fully reading the entire text or accompanying links; readers attempt to cyberbully each other into seeing that their way, or the way their department works, is the best. Members are insistent that you are doing it wrong. They also pile in with their majority when condemning some other dissenting opinion. This is the subculture of many fire service forums, that a small minority of posters who have a large number of posts, are held in a position of high regard ('virtual' fire service experience) based on that growing number of posts.
What I find offensive are the posts that ask the most basic of firefighting questions, that should be answered by members of the poster's own department. What does this say about the future of that firefighter, in terms of education and development? What does it say about the leadership of that fire department? It is a sure sign of difficult times ahead when new member looks for answers on the internet when they should be coming from the academy, an IFSTA book or a senior firefighter.
Cindy is very regretful for what her post has done. She has apologized and Tim has also commented on the matter. Her post, while not written in the best style, did ask a powerful question. As I have shared with others, despite the outcry of condemnation (wanting Cindy terminated) and solidarity ('brotherhood' among anonymous internet personalities) before January 2010 is over the fire service will again hear of some department having an issue with racism, sexual harassment or hazing. The news story of the New Mexico chief and firefighters with felony convictions hardly received the outcry that the noose blog did. In fact, the most heated or trafficked forums are the ones currently involving the unpermitted display of Christian religious signs during Christmas. As of this morning there is an update to the FDNY EMS story about the EMTs on break allegedly refusing service to a pregnant woman in distress. Where is the outcry in that? Probably slight because it's EMS, and we don't know the race and ethnicity of the EMTs.Yesterday FFN had the news about FDNY's new commissioner. In the later selection process, one of the candidates was a female, not Caucasian, and with a Jewish sounding last name. Local news had many quotes, from unidentified members, about how she wasn't “one of them”, and that the only way she would likely get the spot would be because of her race and sex. Is that racism, sexism? Yes, but because none of the NYC reporters went with “FDNY is extension of Men Only Club”, there's very little notice; except for the Daily Intel, who ran this obvious headline, http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2009/12/new_fire_c…
I wonder what retired Battalion Chief Rochelle Jones would say about it.
Despite the poor wording of Cindy's question, it still remains unanswered, in theoretical context. I say that not because the fire service is an extension of racial hatred, but because firefighters are human. Firefighters are member of a greater civil community and some communities have a very deep past when it comes to race. This strange notion that public safety officials are devoid of any sinful behavior is constantly rebuked by news of racist, sexist and felonious acts committed by men and women in blue, because they are human.
There is also a narrow-mindedness in many forums, regardless of the site, and it is apparent through the number of comments and how the comments are written. There is a participatory culture that exists in fire service websites, which is good for traffic but lacks the substance of having quality discussion and debate. Readers comment without fully reading the entire text or accompanying links; readers attempt to cyberbully each other into seeing that their way, or the way their department works, is the best. Members are insistent that you are doing it wrong. They also pile in with their majority when condemning some other dissenting opinion. This is the subculture of many fire service forums, that a small minority of posters who have a large number of posts, are held in a position of high regard ('virtual' fire service experience) based on that growing number of posts.
What I find offensive are the posts that ask the most basic of firefighting questions, that should be answered by members of the poster's own department. What does this say about the future of that firefighter, in terms of education and development? What does it say about the leadership of that fire department? It is a sure sign of difficult times ahead when new member looks for answers on the internet when they should be coming from the academy, an IFSTA book or a senior firefighter.
Sorry, the Holidays kept me from responding in a more timely manner. First off, thanks for the pingback: I hope it's because you all found my post to be less about the personality and more about the issue itself and our responsibility as “authors” (which is a pretty loose term for some).
Both of the previous comments were good insights to the total issue, and while I continue to consider racism particularly vile and reprehensible, I think we (the online fire service community) have a responsibility to delve further into the issues and root out these problems. It would be nice to see this in society as a whole, but while we have made incredible strides since the Fifties and Sixties, unfortunately, we still have a way to go.
Sorry, the Holidays kept me from responding in a more timely manner. First off, thanks for the pingback: I hope it's because you all found my post to be less about the personality and more about the issue itself and our responsibility as “authors” (which is a pretty loose term for some).
Both of the previous comments were good insights to the total issue, and while I continue to consider racism particularly vile and reprehensible, I think we (the online fire service community) have a responsibility to delve further into the issues and root out these problems. It would be nice to see this in society as a whole, but while we have made incredible strides since the Fifties and Sixties, unfortunately, we still have a way to go.
Sorry, the Holidays kept me from responding in a more timely manner. First off, thanks for the pingback: I hope it's because you all found my post to be less about the personality and more about the issue itself and our responsibility as “authors” (which is a pretty loose term for some).
Both of the previous comments were good insights to the total issue, and while I continue to consider racism particularly vile and reprehensible, I think we (the online fire service community) have a responsibility to delve further into the issues and root out these problems. It would be nice to see this in society as a whole, but while we have made incredible strides since the Fifties and Sixties, unfortunately, we still have a way to go.