This is in response to Dave Statters critique (here) of my previous post on the situation in South Fulton (here).
You know what people say when they don’t have anything else to gig me on? I’m short. That’s it, plain and simple.
What is truly amazing is that the ones who usually do it stand just a couple inches taller than me. You would think that they were towering men at 7′ tall. Nope. I think it is hilarious. I stand 5’7″. It has never bothered me.
Dave Statter is one of those guys. I think he got picked on as a kid.
Either way, he has called me out. He not only disagrees with my stance on the South Fulton fiasco, he actually said I was just plain wrong.
I just don’t think Dave understands a firefighters perspective.
Dave lambastes the Oak Brook’s Connie Xinos for wanting to fire firefighters (of which I agree with Dave on this). Yet local representatives (City,County,town Council members and mayors) get by unscathed by Dave in South Fulton and Obion County Tennessee.
Then in a move reminiscent of FirefighterHourly.com, he jumps on the bandwagon of the IAFF (of which I am a member). The IAFF’s stance is understandable and blames the FD for inaction while pointing to the issue of the pay for service policy. Read it here.
On to Dave’s critique of my stance he wrote:
Now back to our story. No, Rhett. Everything did not operate as it should. Firefighters put out fires and help people. They should not be put in the position where they can’t do that. And maybe it’s not the South Fulton Government that is necessarily the problem. Maybe Obion County should provide for its people by subsidizing the volunteer fire departments.
Blah, blah, blah…Actually Dave, everything did operate just as it was supposed to according to South Fulton City, The South Fulton FD, and Obion County.
- The County allows South Fulton to provide Fire protection through a Fire Protection District.
- South Fulton has a 5 mile radius Fire Protection District in Obion County.
- South Fulton offers Fire Protection to Obion County residents for an annual $75 fee.
- South Fulton does not allow payment on scene when residents of Obion County have a fire.
- Obion County residents understand this fee and pay it if they want fire protection.
Just like you said: They should not be put in the position where they can’t do that. These rules are created by people further up the chain than the firefighters.
If Obion County residents and Obion County legislators want their own fire protection they would have to create their own department(s). This is just as I said and then you said after me.
Fire Departments operate under local governments. They have policies to follow and regulations to abide by. Not all of them make sense. Not all of them are right. The beancounters (local officials) are the ones to blame plain and simple.
If you cannot trust your department heads to follow the rules they will be replaced. If there were such a problem with this, why in the hell has it been going on for 20 years?
Dave, you have no argument with me. You just wanted all of your readers (both of them) to look at my site, check out the sites, and hopefully boost your own stats.
I just don’t see how you can fault the Fire Department. The headline should have read “City Council makes Firefighters stand by and watch house burn down”. Get it…it isn’t as catchy as “firefighters stand by and watch house burn”…media at its best.
The truth is that Dave is a good friend. He is always asking if he can stop by my station to smell the smoke in my turnout gear. I just love how he clings to his couple of months as a volunteer firefighter in the 70′s like a small child clings to their teddy bear.
My only real beef with you J.. I mean Rhett is that you wrote “Everything else operated as it should”. My point is that it shouldn’t operate that way and that if Obion County can’t step up to the plate the fire department must put an end to this nonsense.
Of course it isn’t the firefighters’ fault. But Karns VFD in Tennessee has a much better, though far from perfect, solution, that is much truer to what a firefighter and fire department should be. Handle the emergency and then hash out the other crap.
Besides going against everything a firefighter is about, the South Fulton ways leaves too much room for error. It is not inconceivable that they would let the house of a family that is really destitute burn down for want of $75. It might just be they had to decide to put food in the mouths of their kids or pay the FD fee. What would your decision be on how to spend the money?
BTW my only mention of the IAFF was a link to Schaitberger’s statement. I also linked to you, Olbermann and Glenn Beck. What’s your point?
And you have lost all credibility, not all only with me, but your whole audience when you say I am doing this looking to boost my own stats. I am not the one who added four boobs to the one that was already on the site just to trick people into reading this rag.
Admit it now that you were wrong Fleitz. It will be so much easier for you than waiting a few days when you are entrenched even further in this indefensible position that it’s okay for firefighters to fiddle while Obion County burns.
I know I repeat myself, but thank goodness for Willie Wines so that their is at least one credible voice from Roanoke.
BTW, what time are Connie and his friends picking you up? I truly think you are a food one to round out this foursome.
Statter
Dave,
It amazes me that you continue on this impetuous rant about you versus me……
You find fault with the FD and I find fault with the local governments.
The local governments are the ones pulling the strings. They are the ones in charge.
I never said it was OK for firefighters to fiddle while Obion County burns. I merely pointed to the system they have worked the way it should. I didn’t say I agreed with their system or liked it.
(sitting back with a bowl of popcorn and a beer…)
It’s fun to read this stuff, Jared, but pop yourself another bowl tonight (Wednesday) at 9pm ET and LISTEN in to the fun. Firefighter Netcast devotes the program to the Fiasco in Fulton County.
As long as yer up…….
BTW, Has anyone bothered to ask what the liability/workman’s comp policies cover for the VFD? In all actuality, putting the fire out could have exposed the FD to more liability than letting the house burn to the ground.
Subscription fee systems for funding fire departments SUCK.
Fire departments can’t change that system.
Citizens and governments are the only ones who can change that system.
If the fire department had broken from the policy, then what would be their next act of defiance or insubordination? Just like the military, the fire service must rely on a close set of orders and chain of command. Tell a general to stick it in his ear and see where your career goes.
I wish that this incident had turned out better for all involved, but in case you haven’t noticed, the homeowner is enjoying his 15 minutes of fame.
And the fire department keeps getting gut punched.
I’m with you on this one, Rhett…
All 5’8″ of me.
Thanks Chief!
Agreed that the PEOPLE need to change the system. That or they need to elect officials who will!
I have to say, I’m just plain entertained. For once, it’s not me in the middle of controversy. I’m astonished at that, really.
Fee for service/subscription FDs don’t work. They should have all been scrapped in the 1800s when the insurance company fire departments succumbed to clarity of thought. Rhett’s right to say that the local governments and citizens therein are crazy to have let this go on for 20 years. Dave’s right to say that the FD should have intervened… I would have.
Just remember, play nice in the sandbox please.
Truth be told, I never said I wouldn’t intervene. Luckily, I don’t have to worry about this antiquated system. I don’t work around it.
I just don’t see how the firefighters can be held accountable for following the rules.
You don’t have to like the system, I don’t. But if the local government can’t trust the firefighters do follow the rules you have a bigger problem.
The rules need changing, that is for sure!
We all know subscriptions are a problematic solution at best. Many of us around the country also know this is the only way some places can fund themselves, good old school VFD. Some fire departments have mechanisms in place to address the late payment/non-member issue: If you really want us, we will come and provide the full level of services that we provide paid up customers. Period. The catch is, you now are a member and must pay your subscription in full and an additional fee based on a defined scale, and you will be billed. This runs into the hundreds of dollars just to pull up to the address. Can’t pay? That is above a line fire officer’s paygrade and all he knows is he is doing his job, and increasing the customer base.
Regarding this episode specifically, Everyone owns a little bit of this, but there are no Evil Doers. The only way there is a real Bad Guy is if the local governments that are involved do not immediately research and build a new system that reduces the likelyhood of future fiascos like this one. We say we learn from tragedy…here is a lesson that did not cost any human lives! A good thing from my perspective.
Pay for the service, or don’t whin after the fact. If your not happy about the system, then change it. Can’t blame the FD for the broken system. Another example of our sense of entitlement.
In my simplistic perspective, if the property was not worth $75 to the homeowner, it should not be worth the life of a fireman. The local fire firefighters should not have to place risks on their life to save someone else’s unclaimed PROPERTY.
Unfortunately, I think the biggest issue with this whole incident is the lack of clarity amongst the fire service. I could see this as a rally cry from the fire service leaders, a line in the sand of sorts. We as a fire service can not continue to place the burden and risk on the shoulders of firefighters for a public that does not want to pay for the protection. Unfortunately, I was saddened to see the uber simplistic response from the IAFF, clearly standing on the wrong side of the sand in my imaginary sandbox.
Fire departments and the local governments are not facing an economic crisis, they’re facing a priority crisis. If it is not a priority to citizens to pay a nominal fee to provide protection to their property, it should not be a priority for us to protect. We can’t keep telling the public that we’ll continue to provide superior coverage and quick response times without financial support. We will only be able to provide coverage commensurate with the priority the public funds us at. On this issue, I think the IAFF statement was the biggest black eye on the fire service.
What gets me, all they had to do was spray water– no one was asking them to walk into the structure fire– just put some damn water on it. I have looked at this issue from all sides (my significant other is a fireman/medic for 30 years) and I just don’t think that there are any easy answers to this issue.
What I am hoping for that this could be used a learning experience considering the media attention that this incident has raised. There has got to be a better solution for having coverage for the whole county. If, however, if fire levy’s have been created, voted upon and not get enough votes.. then this would create a bigger issue which is resulting in the subscription service.
I used to live in a VERY rural area. We had no county water lines and our water was trucked in for day to day usage. We have a all volunteer fire department for the township and it is paid for by a levy. However, by the time they would show up, our home would be burnt to the ground. So, yea, we pay the levy for the fire protection but it wouldn’t do us any good. But when we did have an ice storm back in 2003 they were out there with the huge chain saws cutting the tree’s out of the roads and delivered food and water and feed for our horses for those of us who couldn’t get out. They even loaned generators for us — So, yea, our levy’s paid for the help when we needed it the most. Down our road we had elderly folk and I just recently had MAJOR surgery. They were concerned about us getting our medications — so, yea… I love the guys at Green Township. The chief just passed away this past May– I loved Norm– he was a great guy.