I got this clip sent to me by a Crusty Old Jake. I do not know who made it.
The video (warning: vulgar language) features some of the old school mentality vs. new school mentality. While I don’t completely agree with everything that is said, the dialogue is interesting in the points it makes about how training is being created to not be dangerous. The outcome is firefighters who might not fully appreciate how dangerous our jobs can be.
It may not be as easy as saying “go in and put the fire out”, the video might bring a question to the table like “how come we are making it so difficult to go in and put the fire out”.
Standards like “two in, two out” were created because of lessons learned. The ability to follow this standard is typically accomplished by first due assignments in the area where I work. However, in more rural departments this might take some time.
As for the whole training in metal containers, class b burn buildings, and simulators is an issue which really peaks my interest. So many people are pointing to how effective simulator training can be in the fire service. I have a hard time buying it though.
Simulator training did nothing for my ability as a driver. However, I was already a seasoned apparatus driver when I took it. Subsequently, I think that simulator training is very effective for IMS. I have learned a lot by doing IMS training in front of a simulated house fire.
As for learning how to actually extinguish fire, simulators don’t seem to be a reasonable trade off. Even after hours of classroom to learn fire behavior, building construction, reading smoke, extinguishing agents, hose and appliances, water streams, and all that other stuff I feel that actual firefighting in the very least a Class B burn building is necessary to effectively teach what it is like to put out a house fire….and I mean a hot and smoky class b burn building with plenty of fire.
In all my learning, I always felt as though a class b burn building was a simulator in itself. It simulated a real fire. It was controlled and safe. Unfortunately that isn’t always the case.
What do you all think?
Here is the video…
I’m Shocked… Shocked I say, that the “captain” in this video is at the fire scene and does not have on his protective gear and his safety vest.!!!!!
What are these video coming too.!!!!!!
That was absolutely amazing! It’s true, that’s why! I hate the safety nazis!
As long as we continue to fail to show the integration of safety into skill sets, safety will always be regarded as an impediment to doing the job.
There is a reason why old school firefighters live to enjoy their retirement.
And it isn’t YouTube.
I see both sides. Just don’t forget, “Risk a little to save a little and risk a lot to save a lot.”
This battle between “old” and “new” attitude will persist as long as there is any change in our business, which fortunately, thanks to improvement in equipment, tends to get less risky.
(Just take a look at the turnout gear we got nowadays, we can use it to safely enter places we would have been declared officially insane for even thinking about entering them 25 to 30 years ago)
But improves safety through better equipment also means that more accidents need to be accounted to human error and/or faulty tactics, and that’s what led to a change of rules and procedures.
My experiences with simulations in training is rather good so far, the most impressive simulation I’ve seen so far was foam training on liquid fuel fires done using fully functional 1:10 scale model foam equipment and real fire. The scale model of the whoile scene made it possible to see the whole effects of every action while still teaching the proper techniques.
Another impressive use of scale models for training I have seen is incident command training as map exercise using scale model buildings and apparatus. If done right, (discuss every thought and decision in detail) this can teach every participant more than several real life exercises.
I didn’t have the opportunity to see a driving simulator yet, but I think it’s better to do driver training with the real thing anyway, since every vehicle is different, and it’s rather unlikely to have an accurate simulator for exactly your apparatus available. Also you’ll get to know your area really well by real life driver training with your apparatus in your area. (Make sure to go to the more tricky locations as soon as you’re familiar with the vehicle’s basic handling, because everyone can drive a truck on a wide and straight road)
My view on burn buildings is that they’re not essential to learn proper extinguishing techniques, this can be done with a single room, like a metal container. Orientation and search in a smoke filled building doesn’t require fire, stage fog will provide a safe way of seeing as much as in thick smoke without the dangers of real smoke. I think starting with training all interior firefighting skills at once is too much input, so the learning outcome will be less than in separate training for each skill.
If all required skills have been trained seperately, a burn building can be useful to train them in combination, but safety must be a main concern in using burn buildings. It’s only training, so we don’t want to put our lives at risk for that.
We must find a good balance between safety and agressiveness. “Risk a little to save a little and risk a lot to save a lot” is a good approach for that. I will happily ignore some (but not all) safety rules, if there are good chances of saving a human life by doing so, but I won’t ignore a single one of them just to put out a fire in a building that’s already destroyed beyond repair.
there has been so much change in th Fire Service. scba, 3/4 to bunker. building construction, men ,boys ,old and new school . trust is an issue. giving a shit has alot to do with who you are?!
Being safe gets your hurt and/or killed. Being smart is what keeps you alive.
found all this kinda strange. the same comments and questions were raised and fought over 30 years ago. i was stationed at the us navy fire fighting school in norfolk,va and was involved in the installation and testing of the first propane burning fire fighting trainer.